Posted by: thebuffyrewatch | July 15, 2013

Podcast #117: Dead Things

Here’s the podcast for Season 6, Episode 13 – Dead Things

To Crime!

To Crime!

Download: Dead Things

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The next podcast will appear on Tuesday 23rd July 2013 for episode fourteen of Season Six: “Older and Far Away.” That’s the one Dawn doesn’t want anyone to leave the house.

Comment on this post to get your views on the podcast.

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Responses

  1. I am glad I stumbled upon this podcast. As a person who only discovered the Whedonverse in the last few years, I have come to enjoy Buffy the most. I look forward to listening more!

  2. Follow up to:

    To clarify, I didn’t stop being friends with that guy BECAUSE he was all “oh yeah, anya comes back and stays around forever” and stuff. We just gradually lost touch. But if there’s one thing I know it’s how to frame a good reversal, so thank you for believing my little joke.

    I guess me saying xander should’ve beeb the werewolf didn’t line up with me earlier saying that she shouldn’t have gained super powers, but I guess i don’t think of the wolves in Buffy to be a “super power” It would’ve just been… I mean something. I sort of agree that the show is about women empowerment and the men reflect the supportive role, but I also feel that if Nicholas Brendon is going to be named second in the credits and be a mainstay longer than Giles, Oz, Riley, and even Spike and Angel combined, he should have done… Something! Willow took over a high school class when she was a junior, became a powerful witch, had a sexual awakening, and is now spiraling through self destruction. Xander on the other hand has gotten into construction and dated a few demons. I’ll revisit this after a certain moment in season 7.

    As for Yes, dear, I was SORT OF being sarcastic. It was a show I liked and could probably talk fondly and intelligently about it, but not for long and certainly for its 122 episodes. Something like the Drew Carey show would’ve been a better example. A slightly better example. But yes, I know we are all busy, and wasn’t really looking to take time away from your schedule to discuss Greg and Kim trying to have a baby. (alternatively, if any other Rewatch listeners want to do a Digimon podcast, you have my email)

  3. Some thoughts about stuff brought up in the last podcast:

    You guys danced around this a lot, but never really came out and made the point. I wonder if Buffy’s extreme guilt reaction is tied into Faith’s murder of the mayor’s aide. That was an accident, but it really sent Faith over the edge. Buffy’s life is already is a downward spiral, and she could be terrified that she could end up to be another Faith. (Also, in the discussion about Joyce possibly being ripped out of heaven, you guys mentioned that after Buffy’s death, another slayer would be called. That’s wrong, Faith is still alive. The next slayer would be called after Faith’s death.)

    Xander not having any superpowers or talents really makes sense to me. He’s the everyman, just the regular guy. I also like to think of him as an inverted Smurfette (the token male in a group of females, instead of the usual token female in a group of males. If you haven’t watched the Feminist Frequency YouTube video on the Smurfette trope, I highly recommend!)

    Thanks for mentioning my article! I didn’t get into Riley much at all in it, but I do agree with the idea (I think said by Nikki?) that Riley and Buffy wouldn’t have lasted anyway, but mostly because once Riley went from G.I. Joe to Average Joe, I think Buffy’s attraction to him faded. He also couldn’t keep up with her anymore. I disagree a little with the idea that Riley would have put his love for Buffy as a priority. His actions in the last few episodes he was in was not indicative of putting Buffy at any priority. Her mother was dying and he was letting vampires feed off of him in a cry for attention? There are so many problems with their dynamic that it could probably fill a book.

    Finally, I wanted to touch on the idea that Jonathan and Andrew weren’t aware that what they were doing was rape. I think it is a very common view that if a woman doesn’t explicitly say “no, I do not want this”, then some will argue it wasn’t, to borrow a phrase, “legitimate rape”. And under the dampener, Katrina isn’t saying no. She’s actually saying yes. It’s a broader definition of consent being used here, that she is not in a proper frame of mind to make choices and have consent. Consent is actually a huge part of this season, what with the Trio and also Willow’s memory alterations. I might not refer to what Willow did as rape, but it was definitely a violation of consent.

    I’ll be back later with my thoughts on the next episode! I remember really enjoying Tara in it, so we’ll see!

  4. Re: Dead Things

    For a moment on Rewatch, I had the same concern as Robin – how could Spike not know how to hide a body? But then I decided it was both true to character and very funny.

    Spike is so impulsive that even Angelus got frustrated with him for riling up the locals. I can totally believe that in 200 years, he has never hidden a single body. If Buffy had wanted him to pose Katrina so as to best horrify first responders, I would expect Spike to do a pretty good job, but subtlety and forethought aren’t his strong points.

    (Ps: since Buffyverse vampires aren’t dead to the world during daylight, Spike doesn’t even have relevant experience hiding himself or Dru.)

    • I totally agree. Spike’s not exactly stealth guy– he’s never had any reason to hide a body before.

  5. - Tara teasing Spike might be her best moment yet. It’s funny – I still have no idea what her character does when she’s off screen, but I like her a lot more now that she’s showing signs of an interesting personality.

    - Speaking of Tara, I wonder how she got her knowledge of how much magic use is reasonable. She grew up in a family that was lying to her about magic in an effort to disempower her, and then she joined a wicca group that specialized in bake sales. I completely that she does know the line between light and grey magic, but I wonder how she learned it. Does she know other witches, or is she very well read?

  6. So I am finally caught up to where you guys are and I am really enjoying this being spoiler free as it is my first time watching Buffy, I just have a few things to say on previous episodes:

    The Prom:-I know there has been a lot of dispute over Abgel dancing with Buffy at the prom but I feel like this scene is like a goodbye for Buffy and Angel as they never really have one after this. The whole scene seems melancholy rather than romantic to me.

    Real Me-I’m still unsure whether this episode works on first watch as, in my case, I spent the whole episode wondering why on Earth Dawn was there and paid very little attention to the actual episode, making it slightly pointless.

    Okay on to Older and Far Away, I felt this episode had some good points, I really enjoyed the continuation of Buffy and Spike. Spike continued to show somewhat human emotions such as jealousy whole retaining his threatening and possessive nature towards Buffy.

    I also enjoyed Tara in this episode, her comments towards Spike were fun to see and gave her more personality and strengthened her friendship with Buffy. Also when she stood up for Willow it reinforced the notion that leaving Willow was the best thing she could have done, it has only made her stronger.

  7. I”m finding it really hard to say much about Older and Far Away….

    I liked Tara again in this episode, her warmth to Buffy, and her standing up for Willow when she is being pressurised to use her magic. The episode seems to be setting up a possible reunion between her and Willow.

    Other positive thing was Xander looking out for Anya when she was losing it a bit. Just showed more about their relationship.

    I think that’s it for positives. I didn’t hate the episode but……so much seemed unrealistic. Firstly Clem, a cute character but you can’t get away with having this bizarre looking creature meeting normal people outside of the scoobie gang. It feels like it’s breaking a rule set up by the show.

    Also the party wasn’t really a party – just a gathering of a group of friends with a few extras. I know TV characters tend to keep to a small group of friends just to keep things simple but god, if that was the best turnout I could get for a party it would depress the hell out of me. Poor Buffy. And no one gets drunk or even a bit tipsy.

    And Dawn, I know I should feel sympathetic but it fails. I just kept thinking she would be more worried about not having anyone her age to hang out with. 15 year olds would surely want to go to the mall with their friends not a proxy guardian. And she keeps doing classic teenage hissy fits which are not very interesting.

    All the dramatic build up of Buffy and Spikes relationship from the last episode is just put to one side, I suppose we see Buffy being a bit better at resisting his advances but there could have been more. Bit of a waste.

  8. OLDER AND FAR AWAY:

    Ok, everything nice I said about Dawn last week, I totally take back. Here she was back to her old self, complete with GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT line. I didn’t even feel sad for her when Halfrek was telling everyone how they’ve ignored Dawn and she was in pain. Her pain is pretty insignificant compared to everyone else’s! Seems like she’s so insufferable that she has no friends her own age, besides Janice, and well, she seemed more interested in making out with the undead.

    I really liked the scenes between Xander and Anya, like how he comforts her when she’s freaking out, and how Anya goes on the warpath against Dawn after Xander is injured. Despite all their relationship issues, they really do care about each other.

    Tara’s snarky comments toward Spike were hilarious. Maybe breaking up with Willow was good for Tara’s personality, she seems to be a lot more substantial now that she isn’t defined as Willow’s girlfriend.

    I didn’t like Sophie, Buffy’s friend from work. Seemed like they could have cut her out completely and it would have been fine. She was over-the-top weird.

    Some reference-y stuff: Richard is wearing a red shirt, which is a reference to the Red Shirt trope where a minor character gets killed. Although this case seems to indicate he was only injured.

    Some behind the scenes stuff: The actress that plays Halfrek is the same actress that played Cecily in FOOL FOR LOVE. So, the scene between them in the house is a throwback to that. There is a graphic novel where Cecily is actually a vengeance demon already when William professes his love to her. Changes the context in which she says that he is beneath her.

  9. I have quite a bit to say with this one. I watched more episodes than I had intended between comments so please chop to your hearts content.

    I want to start by giving my opinion on what happens to a person when they are turned into a vampire. Once there is enough vampire blood in a persons body to overtake the human, they go through the change. I think much like any illness this change takes a different amount of time for each individual. For some the change takes days, for others it is only hours.
    As Angel starts to imply during season 3′s doppelgangland, I feel vampires are simply a more demonic version of the original self.
    Jessie wanted to be confident and have Cordelia., His vampire self was confident, and wanted to eat Cordelia. (yes, in fact I do intend to work him into every comment. He was not a wasted character I won’t believe it and Robin you can’t make me!)
    Liam (Angel’s human name) was only ever interested in having a good time and getting with women. The evil Angelous still wanted a good time and women. His demon’s version of a good time was torture and murder, and his idea of infatuation with a woman is well illustrated well if we look back at what he did with Drusilla and Buffy. Once his soul is returned I think it is still Liam’s soul but the former fun-loving scoundrel is over-whelmed by everything the demon did with his body, which is why Angel as we know him is so different from the Liam we saw in flashbacks.

    When Drusilla was changed she had given herself into insanity thanks to Angelous, so there was nothing other than that insanity for her demon to cling to when it took over her body. Due to this insanity it was easy for her child Spike to convince her that they where in love. We have to assume he told her over and over through the years how they where meant to be together, she had after all saved him from mediocrity. I think he likely told her this often enough that she believed it to be true.

    Harmony never cared about anything beyond being the most beautiful and popular, her demon does everything it can to be the most popular and beautiful vamp in all of Sunnydale.

    And then we have Spike. He was changed at a point when love was the most important thing in his world, so despite the darkness inherent in most vampires, his personal demon took on the ability to love with a true passion not normally possible. As a soulless vampire, he will never be capable of anything but the most selfish form of love yet it is love none the less and that love is the most important part of his being.

    Crush
    A favorite episode of mine, I have been a “Spuffy” fan since before such a phrase existed, so I love the early episodes that focus on this relationship. Robin made the comment during this episode that Buffy should have killed Spike (I have faith you will have let that one go after the ending of the gift.) My defense of this is simply Glory. Although she is being a rather passive God at this point, she has still devastated Buffy more than once by this point and the slayer knows she can not afford to take out one of the few super powered people she has who may fight on her side. She is confident that he is only a risk to her at this point, and lets face it, our slayer is just a little bit on the cocky side. With the events of season 4s Harsh Light Of Day so far back in her history, I don’t think it would occur to Buffy that Spike would stand a chance against her, even if he did somehow lose his chip.
    As far as any feelings Buffy may have for Spike at this time, I feel confident in saying none of them are romantic in any way. That being said I do think he gives her, to quote Willow, “lusty wrong feelings.”
    Also when she tells spike he is not capable of love, I absolutely agree that she was talking to herself as much as she was him.

    Made to Love You.
    I’m going to skip Warren until you have reached a particular episode in season six, aside from pointing out that when everyone is in the Magic Box talking about what a loser he is, Tara was the one person who made an attempt to defend him, because she is the sort of person who believes even the most flawed near human beings deserve compassion. Because she is a good person. And her face is beautiful. Just sayin
    ,
    A random fact about this episode the writer, I believe it was Jane Espinson, had no idea that scene was going to be there. Joss wrote the Joyce moments himself and the episode was already in production before he told anybody he planned to tack the first few seconds of The Body onto the end of this episode.

    As far as Brittney Spears playing the April, I think that may have worked on a very different level. Although the critic in you both would have likely hated it, I think the comedy would have been very different and could have been quite enjoyable from a fan girl standpoint. This would only have worked if we had never seen the amazing way this actress did the job however.

    I love the fact that April has combat mode. Warren is just the sort of weaselly wormy little twerp that would program his girlfriend to be able to protect him on the off chance he ever got mugged or otherwise attacked. Whedon knows he does not have the stones to do it himself. An episode highlight for me.

    I also think Buffy’s extreme disgust at everything weasel worm does in this episode is 100% true to character, as apposed to being a plot device to highlight the parallels between herself and April, even though it does accomplish the task. This is one of the highly feminist episodes of the show. April represents everything a boy like weasel worm would want in a woman, where as Buffy represents everything a woman should want in herself. I would find it off putting if Buffy had been anything other than highly offended by all of this.
    Seriously, crying is black male? Seriously!!!
    My heart breaks every time I get to the ending and Buffy realizes April will never be anything other than loyal to Weasel Worm, and the only way to comfort her is to lie and tell her he is going to come back for her.

    The Body
    I don’t have much to say about this episode, mostly because I will get far to worked up if I try, but there is a moment within it that made me think twice about listening to you podcast while walking. I had known since Cordia first started coming down on Tara that she would like her in this episode, so when she confirmed that I screamed HA! rather loudly. I should mention I was walking down a busy street full of other people most of whom now shot me odd looks. I now save your podcast for backstreets.

    Also Willow and Tara do live together, Tara went to the laundry room to look for the sweater Willow was looking for.

    Forever
    With this episode my comment is mostly for Cordia, and is about Prom as much as it is about Forever. I’m speaking about Angel’s presence. You say a moment like Prom is meant to be about the emotions, and two people who love each other being there with each other, and that is what this was. Angel was not leaving because he did not love Buffy, he was leaving because if he stayed he would probably wind up killing her. More importantly she understands and accepts that. The emotions are all there though. Buffy wanted one perfect high school moment, going to her senior prom with the love of her life and having a perfect dance. This was the one and only thing Angel had left to give her. Other than, you know, helping her save the world one last time.
    Forever was the same thing. Buffy needed someone who loved her with everything they had to be there with her, and Angel was the only person left in the world who fit those credentials.
    As for how he knew it happened, I had always figured Cordelia had a vision. Although The Powers that Be are never named in Buffy, Whistler’s presence in Becoming does imply that the powers care about Buffy, and I think they knew she needed Angel’s support in order to keep fighting after such a powerful loss. Angels thing at this point is saving people in general, not just saving their lives. The PTB or whatever you want to call them for this show felt this was a rescue worth Angels time.

    Also we are keeping up with the Tara love two episodes in a row! At long last Cordy Giveth!

    Tough Love
    And Cordy taketh away. Personally I loved insane Tara. The way Willow looks at her breaks my heart, and the odd moment of clarity we get from Tara through the final three episode arc of this season was just enough to give me hope that we would get her back before what I then thought was the end of a series that to this day I feel is one of the best stories ever told.

    Willow’s magic all makes sense to me. They showed something she could already do by having her start with throwing the knives, something not much different than floating a pencil I think. As for the rest of the spells it is important to remember as you have frequently pointed out we have not seen as much of Willow this season. Should it not go without saying that she would still be learning offensive spells to help Buffy with the slaying? Specifically spells that would be effective against Glory. I know you two have issues with the audience having to come up with their own answers but I personally like that about this show. It allows each individual watcher to get exactly what they need out of the show. Or everyone who is not a heartless robot critic anyway.

    You both also mention that the fight between Willow and Tara appeared forced and was simply a plot device but I don’t think so. As recently as forever we saw tension building between the two of them.
    I used to be very much like Tara, not because of my family, but due to my peers. as a very unique individual growing up in a closed minded small town I spent several years of my young adult life keeping my relationship issues to myself for fear that the boy I was with would leave me if I voiced an opinion contradictory to his own. It was not until I started dating a man who worked hard to try to build me up into a strong woman that I was finally able to speak my mind. Perhaps im projecting but I think Willow has done this for Tara, whom is only now starting to feel that she can disagree with Willow without being left by her. For this reason only now is she starting to say things she may have been feeling since season four, but kept inside for fear of starting a fight.
    Willow is not used to this, even when she was dating Oz he almost never spoke against her. She has never taken criticism well, and was almost certainly shocked by the fact that Tara would, seemingly out of the blue, start to question her. The blending of all of these issues made the fight work perfectly in my eyes.

    Spiral/Weight of the world/The Gift
    Buffy carrying Dawn. Tacky? Yes. Powerful if a little obvious metaphor? Also yes. Dawn does not get to give up while Buffy is around, and if she tries to, Buffy will carry her burdens for her. I like to think of that moment as foreshadowing Buffy’s leap off the tower.

    Buffy running away. I think this is such a wonderful moment for this show. I imagine we could count on one hand the number of times we have Buffy run away in this show and probably still have a digit or two left over. In fact a random aside, Sarah almost got re-cast in the movie “Grudge” because she had a very hard time running scared. I suppose after being Buffy for seven years, fear is not an emotion that comes easy. Back to the point, Glory is, and will remain the only enemy our slayer goes up against that gets her so badly on the ropes she feels ditching town is the only option left to her. I also like the fact that because we have spent so much time coming to understand the power Buffy has, this action does not send us the message that Buffy et all have a weakness, so much as it illustrates her fear of Glorys strength.

    Cordy mentions that she does not like the way Willow gives such obvious exposition about who the first slayer is in Buffy’s dream. I saw that as the writers hanging a lantern on the fact that they sometimes get a little obvious with exposition and making a joke about it. A joke which I for one found Hilarious.

    She also mentions that she does not like the fact that there is only one day that Glory can do the spell, which to her implies that this entire situation was somehow meant to be. Now once again I am about to fill in my own blanks here, but Glory’s life is tied to Bens, She will live a mortal life and die when he dies. So whatever alignment the stars are in probably does happen every hundred years or so, but as Glory is stuck with a human lifespan, she does not have one hundred years or so to wait for the next time around.

    Okay I’m not trying to attack Cordia, honestly I agree with most of the things you say when Robin has not corrupted you with his wicked critical ways, and want to make it very clear that I absolutely adore you both, but here is another problem you have that I have an answer for. The uber heavy troll hammer conveniently getting caught in the chains of the tower. I attribute this, and the many other super convenient moments like it that occur in this show to the Powers that Be. Or perhaps I should say whoever it was Whistler was working for back in becoming. For obvious reasons this power can’t get to involved with the slayers fight, but what kind of higher power would send a worrier out to fight for their cause and not lend a divine hand every now and then.

    A much brighter note to Cordia, you mention that you thought Willow was talking to Spike through the tube, I thought that as well, but did not realize my mistake until next September when she is directing the scoobies with her mind. (A Buffy first since it will happen I believe exactly three times.)

    Borrowing your way back machine one more time, you mention that Dawn needing to be killed instead of patching up her wound is much like buffy killing angel in Becoming. First of all, a sword to the stomach does not kill a vampire, so I assume that even if she had stabbed him in the hand he would still be sucked into the hell portal. As for our current hell portal, (or my current hell portal since your a ways ahead of me now) I had always just assumed the blood needed to stop from within the portal, which is why Buffy’s blood is able to stop it even though Dawn’s is quite obviously still flowing through her veins. It was not until you mentioned it that I even thought to question that fact, and I choose to continue not questioning it.

    I don’t think Doc is the first demon to get stabbed in the stomach and not die. I may be mistaken but does alternate GIles not stab Anyanka in the stomach during The Wish. I think that is how he slows her down long enough to get her amulet.

    One last bit of trivia and I am done for this week. The street that everything in Sunnydale happens on is one of the standing sets they had in the little block of warehouses they called a sound stage. Joss’ on site office actually looked down over that set so when he looked out his window he got to see Sunnydale. Talk about immersing yourself in your dreams.

    Off to start season six, I hope to be caught up before you get to the episode seeing red, but I will try not to have quite so many words in the next post. Also feel free to correct anything you saw as a typo, I ran out of time long before i finished writing so I hardly read through it at all before posting.

    • I have lied, I had more worlds.
      This may have come up in the comments for season six, which I am just starting to listen to now, but i wonder if you knew what Xander’s intended arc was for season five. I know Willow’s is still to spoilery to talk about, but there was no Ben in the original breakdown of the fifth season. Xander was intended to be Glory’s human counter part.
      When I think of this I can’t help but flash back to episodes like season 3s Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered and the way Giles responds to him there. I bet it still would have been Giles that ‘killed Glory’.

      • Nikki, do you have a source for the Xander/Glory season five ending? All I could find were rumors (and some alarming Xander/Glory fanfic).

        I agree with you, btw – Giles would totally kill Xander.

  10. It’d get repetitive if I said how much I enjoy your podcasts every time I posted but I’d feel weird not saying so every once in awhile. Thanks again for a great podcast :) It was also interesting to hear how you both got started with this.

    I don’t have too much to say about what is a very ‘eh’ episode, and I’ll again be repetitive echoing everyone else’s comments – Tara is excellent (sweet to Buffy, hilarious to Spike, admirable standing up for Willow), but the show never really works when they try and focus on Dawn, unfortunately. It’s a little strange that Buffy and Spike treat each other so casually since the last time we saw them she beat him to a bloody pulp (I’m glad they at least show that he’s still healing from it). I do think most of their little arguments are funny. They restore some of the cuteness their scenes had in the early S6 episodes, before they got together. Buffy figures out that Dawn made a wish to a vengeance demon really quickly, doesn’t she? Not sure how she connected the dots with that one.

    Rilo Kiley is another band I grew up with, so it was cool to hear them in the background while Buffy was opening her presents. I remember reading that one of the guys in the band played Michael the warlock in S3′s Gingerbread, it’s probably why they used their music in this episode.

  11. Every time Dawn starts whining about how no one pays attention to her, it pulls me out of the show. Even the first time I watched the series, I could tell that Dawn was a victim of writers having no idea what to do with her. So every time she gets angry at Buffy for not paying attention to her (because she’s got, you know, a JOB), I just want her to turn her anger to faulty writing. I think most people were irritating and grating at 15, but the writers haven’t given us any real reason to care about Dawn. 1st season Buffy had real problems and issues and we cared about her. So when she complained about her life, we didn’t find it irritating. It helped that Buffy’s issues at Dawn’s age were things like having to sacrifice her life to stop the Master or dealing with a life expectancy of early-20′s. Dawn’s problems? No one gives me attention! Wah.

    The Sci-Fi channel is having a Buffy marathon. It’s almost sad to see how great seasons 2 and 3 were and then to watching episodes like this. More sad to know that this episode was pretty much par for the course for season 6 so far.

  12. Hi, sorry to be still so many episodes behind, and you may have covered this since in Feedback, but I also felt that Dead Things spoke a bit about Willow’s arc without explicitly referencing her in other ways than has been previously picked up on, for example when discussing issues of the trio’s motivations and the ‘consent’ theme – in particular I felt that there may be an intention to subtly link Jonathan’s story to Willow’s. I felt that there’s a comparison to be made between for example Jonathan’s experience of school and Willow’s, and the way in which both may have been more damaged by the bullying and isolation they experienced there than has been apparent, and this has led them to act inappropriately in terms of power, control and consent now that they are more adult. To some extent, particularly in the visual way it was presented with the object crackling in the palm of the hand, the cerebral dampener was like the forgetting spell put on the Lethe Bramble, which made Tara switch from going to bed angry and not wanting to interact with Willow, to snuggling up to her and who knows what else after the scene change – not unlike Katrina’s switch in the bar from anger and independence to love and sexual consent. The way Willow has been using magic to try to change things to her liking with one big unearned gesture is exactly what Jonathan has been warned against by Buffy more than once. Perhaps if Willow had not become one of the Scoobies in school, she would have been part of the Trio – a resentful, vengeful nerd wanting to remake the world to her own liking without properly considering or understanding the consequences. I also felt the difference in Willow is underscored by Buffy crying into Tara’s lap at the end, where once it would have been Willow – this scene was similar to one in ‘The Prom’ for instance where Buffy cries into Willow’s lap. So I felt there was quite a lot about Willow in this episode without it being made very explicit.

    • Hi guys. Thanks for the thoughtful consideration you gave to my comment in the last podcast. I just wanted to confirm that I didn’t mean to suggest at all that ‘she was insecure and a nerd and that could lead to immoral behaviour’ nor that ‘all nerds could become evil’.

      I was thinking more about what I thought the writers may have been trying to draw out to viewers by the work they have done to show similarities between her arc this season and that of the trio eg the similar depiction visually of the cerebral dampener and the Lethe Bramble magic, and the wider metaphors around life, taking responsibility and having/using power.

      I also didn’t just mean to refer to what we have seen on-screen of Willow’s school days, and certainly wasn’t saying that they are clearly and necessarily damaging (although like Cordia said in the podcast they still might have been) but I was also thinking what Willow has alluded to since then about her experience (eg what she said in Wrecked about her being a nobody at school, what she felt when she encountered Percy again in season 4), and what we have had implied to us about what her school experiences may have been like even before High School or the Scooby days. Her first ever encounter with Buffy for example. (‘Hi!’ ‘Why? Er, I mean hi. Um, did you want me to move?’ or something like that, showing that people aren’t generally friendly to her, or at least she feels they aren’t).

      Anyway, thanks and sorry again if anybody thought I was saying that being a geek or victim of bullying makes you inclined to immorality! Robin was right that I have been catching up and certainly wasn’t intending to compare pre-dark Willow to the terrible actions we have since seen from Warren and to some extent the other two. When I said I could see her having been part of the Trio as another vengeful and resentful victim of school bullying/isolation, I meant things like also agreeing to ‘club together and take over Sunnydale’ – not things like actually intending to commit rape or murder. Cheers!


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