Posted by: thebuffyrewatch | October 13, 2013

Podcast #128: Season 6 discussion

Here’s the podcast with our Season 6 discussion

The Season 6 Cast

The Season 6 Cast

Download: Season 6 discussion podcast

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The next podcast will appear on Monday 28th October 2013  for episode one of Season Seven: “Lessons.”

Comment on this post to get your views on the podcast.

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Responses

  1. I think “inconsistent” is a word you could apply to most seasons of the show. The word that comes to my mind when I think about this season is “ambitious”. I think you two did a good job describing the good and bad that resulted from that ambition.

    It’s an interesting season because you know there’s no way they could have satisfied everybody. The most common complaint of the season that I’ve seen is that it is too dark, like the writers took everything we loved about the show and smashed it to pieces. Some of your suggestions (Willow killing Anya is the only example that comes to mind right now) would make the story more interesting, but I wonder if the writers ever worried “are we going too far?” and just stopped it there.

    I also wonder how this season would have looked if it were two seasons instead, since it definitely had pacing issues.

  2. Hi, Robin & Cordia!! Absolutely love your podcast, but I’m usually too busy to leave feedback. Love listening to the feedback from all the regulars though–Buffy was meant for this level of discourse and analysis. I watched the series on Tuesday nights as it aired, and on DVD many times since. I have always had some lingering questions regarding the character of Rack from season 6.

    First, one of the (MANY) problems of Wrecked was that I did not fully understand the consequences of Willow connecting magically with Rack. The show focused on Willow putting Dawn in danger, but never addressed the odd visions she and Rack shared while she was under the influence of his magic. As Willow writhes on the ceiling, she sees a demon pull a girl into some bushes, then she screams and falls to the floor. During her second visit with Rack, she screams as she sees a vision of the demon holding the limp, or perhaps lifeless, body of a girl. Was this actually happening, or merely a vision? Was an innocent person (other than Dawn) harmed as a consequence of Willow’s encounter with Rack?

    My other questions are about the nature of Rack, himself. Is he human, and in Two to Go, did Willow kill him? Amy claims he is a warlock, and in the Buffy universe, witches and warlocks are usually human beings. I was never sure if Willow had killed him. If he’s a human, obviously I should be horrified that Willow has killed, or at least harmed, another human life. If he’s a demon, maybe her actions are not as severe, but because I still do not understand whether Rack was harming residents of Sunnydale during Wrecked, I do not know how to really react to his being harmed or killed. Because the show was never explicit about these things, I wondered what your take on it was.

    I have one, and only one takeaway from Amends: I wish the show had revealed what the crappy presents were that Faith brought for Buffy and Joyce.

  3. Oh dear, I think I’m the first to comment on Lessons which I worry may be a sign of general lack of enthusiasm for Season 7. I’m not much looking forward to watching this season but I’m grateful you guys are still carrying on and I am defintely looking forward to hearing what you think of it….

    I liked Lessons more than I remembered – not outstanding but not a bad start I thought…

    Budget – they seem to have more of that which is probably good….

    Dawn – I didn’t find her annoying at all. I liked her ‘about me’ speech in class. Also liked that Buffy is making good on her promise in Grave to let Dawn into her world and giving her some practical training.

    Generally the tone is light and feels more positive than Season 6 which is a bit of a relief. I know it’s ridiculous that Xander has gone from High School Leaver to apparently running a building firm in about 2 years but I can forgive it – I suppose it’s TV shorthand for saying he’s a grown up now. Also I liked the scene where the ghosts are all blaming Buffy for their demise in some way and she just blows them off – I thought that was an ok shorthand for saying that she’s over her depression and not easily brought down by guilt.

    Spike – glad he doesn’t appear to have become a version of Angel. He’s still very much Spike and I thought James Marsters acted very, very, disturbed really well. It’s all unknown at this point who he’s talking to but it flipping through all the past big bads and finally becoming Buffy is at least intriguing.

    Willow – they seem to be treating her as if it was in fact her that committed all the acts of Dark Willow which isn’t how Season 6 felt but ho hum….. I just found this whole section weird as I’ve got a friend who just moved to Westbury and all I did was look at the nice scenary and think that maybe I should organise a visit…..sorry not very critically analytical…

    I can’t think of anything that I really disliked about episode (except maybe for the couple singing in the coffee shop and Anya’s blouse) but didn’t love it either. I guess it suffers from having to set up so many new situations.

  4. I’m going to try to be as open-minded and positive as possible when it comes to season seven but I remember absolutely loathing it first time around. In fact when I finished watching season six, I hated the ending so much that I stopped watching Buffy for a couple. Then after watching Angel season four I figured Buffy season seven couldn’t be worse (spoiler alert! it was).

    So because of my rather negative feelings towards season seven I was surprised by how much I enjoyed in this episode. The biggest strength of the episode by far was the humor that has been missing from the show. I suppose that’s not a surprise considering it was written by Joss. It is interesting watching Agents of SHIELD now how incredibly distinct his particular brand of humor is and how it can verge into incredible cheese if not handled right *cough* SHIELD *cough*. Dawn had some surprisingly great lines and while I don’t share the opinion that Joss Whedon can do no wrong, I do think he has extraordinary ability to write an ensemble well. I really wonder if the character that Dawn was in this episode was the character she was meant to be all along. In similar vein I think my favorite line was Willow saying “I just want to be Willow” which is SUCH a coincidence because that’s exactly who I want her to be too. Don’t know who that drug addict with the red hair that turned black was last season?

    Mostly positive time over though because it’s me and my soul is dark and black as my comments. I did not like most of the Spike being insane stuff. I suppose I need more information but it didn’t work for me. James Marsters acted it fine and the reveal that he tried to claw his heart his emotionally effecting in a weird way (for Spike has never been a character who has my sympathy). I suppose most of insanity has to do with the character who is torturing him at the episode’s close but he just seems to be speaking a lot of nonsense. It’s very reminiscent to when Tara got her brain sucked by Glory or really any of Glory’s victims, it’s just a lot of gibberish with moments where he is conviently coherent enough to move the plot forward. And to just prempt the counter argument that I can already hear: Yes, I know I have never gotten my soul back after hundreds of years of being evil. Yes, I know I have no idea what being emotionally tortured by this creature/person/place/thing (let’s just call it a noun) who can inhabit the dead (or previously dead) would do to me. But I do know that is not emotionally engaging for me to look at Spike speaking gibberish and be aware only when the plot demands he be aware.

  5. My very own ReWatch is finally live (yay) and I just wanted to thank Robin and Cordia for inspiring me to take the plunge (you were right. it’s fun)

    Here is all the info below.

    Website: http://thedigimonrewatch.weebly.com/

    Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thedigimonrewatch

    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/…ch/id730685551

    e-mail: thedigimonrewatch.com

  6. Hi guys, just a thought. I came across this article, and I seem to recall some of the episodes praised here being not too favorably scored on the podcast. Just wondered if you had any comments. :)

    http://www.hollywood.com/news/celebrities/55036706/best-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-episodes-on-netflix

    • word of wisdom for you, doggydude. A list on the internet is something that was created by an staff writer who gets paid $100 per article. There are a million “best buffy episodes” lists out there and there isn’t a huge value in singling out this specific one. The fact that they don’t mention the show’s two best episodes should be a sign that this article isn’t worth any of our braincells.

      • Hi Lucario,
        I do find your comment rather rude and upsetting. Certainly what you say is true, but the tone is not at all in line with the politeness I appreciate from Robin and Cordia in the podcast and other commenters. If that wasn’t your intent I would recommend a different plan.
        Thanks Robin and Cordia for your replies. I thought it seemed a bit of an odd list but I find it interesting to try to think how different people prioritize good episodes.

    • Only “Homecoming” is truly overrated I think. The others are fine…an odd list certainly.

      • Please keep it kind, Lucario. :) You’re certainly right about the number of lists. And as with all opinions, everyone’s is different. I must say, the list seems to focus on Halloween appropriate episodes. I’m not a fan of Buffy v. Dracula (I would argue it was super campy), but it would be perfect to watch for the season.

    • If you’re interested, I made my own top ten list. http://www.zwolanerd.com/2013/03/12/tuesday-10-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-episodes/

      General spoiler warning. Brief mention of season 7 episode (including my favoritest Buffy gif EVER).

      • I do like your trivia. A lot of that is stuff I did not know.

        It’s hard to do a top ten for Buffy… I’d personally want to put “The Wish” and “The Zeppo” on there. Probably “Prophecy Girl” as well because that’s the first episode that made me take the show seriously – which is not to say that I didn’t enjoy the rest of the first season.

        Also I like that you have Wrecked as an HM

      • great list meags! the gif is brilliant. Not my favorite episode overall, but some awesome moments. :)

  7. Lessons:
    I was intrigued by the principal. He’s way too good looking and suspicious to not be a big character this season. Why does he know so much about Buffy?

    I was happy to see Dawn finally get some friends of her own. Will they become new sub-scoobies?

    And a satisfying consequence of Spike getting souled. Of course he wouldn’t be able to handle it.

    I think it’s a great season opener. Leaves you with lots of questions. Like who was attacked n Istanbul?

  8. *I apologize in advance for this being REALLY long, so feel free to cut whatever you want.

    Hi guys, long time listener first time feedbacker. Love the podcast, definitely my favorite of all the ones I listen to. You guy’s mention so many of the same issues I’ve had with show. I started watching Buffy a year and a half ago and fell for this show right from the first episode. I had never seen a show like it before. I loved it so much that a few moths after I first watched it I rewatched it. I’ve been meaning to give some feedback for months, and now I finally started just in time for my least favorite season. The season filled with good concepts terribly executed, many continuity and storyline errors, many inconsistencies, a lot of stuff that just makes no sense, too much screen time given to a certain annoying character, and only one or maybe two good episodes, but more on that later.
    First off one of the discussions you guys had during “The Body” about Joyce’s body and why they left her eyes open. I did some googling and found out that when you die with your eyes open and if someone else were to try to close their eyes they could do it with ease and the eyes will close and stay that way within the first hour, before rigor mortis sets in. However, in Joyce’s case her body was cold which means she’s been dead for a few hours, after rigor sets in so they would have to be held closed. This is why at funeral home’s they use super-glue on the eyes and mouth of the corpses to keep them shut if they where to have an open casket funeral.
    Now onto a more recent episode, “Seeing Red,” that tragic episode that aired on my birthday. R.I.P. Tara Maclay. I love Tara, she’s one of my favorite characters on Buffy and was sad to see her go, but was happy to finally see her in the credits. From what I understand Joss Whedon only has people in the credits that had a contract saying they would be available for every episode of the season, unless there character couldn’t be worked into an episode. This is why even though Tara appeared in more episodes than both Oz and Riley, she was never added to the opening sequence, beside that one time of course. However, I know that Joss wanted to do the opening credits killing thing, but I don’t get why he had to do it again since (I don’t know if this is too spoilery) he already did it on Angel.
    While I’m already talking about “Seeing Red,” I must say, the attempted rape scene is one of the most disturbing and uncomfortable scenes on television I have ever seen, although there is one even more unsettling than this one in the Whedonverse.
    Just something that I noticed, Willow’s black shirt that she wears when she goes all dark is the same shirt she wears when Tara and her have that talk in front of the Magic Box in “Dead Things”.
    Ah Xander, God I hate him. Here’s the thing, in “Two To Go” we are supposed to feel bad for him because he talks about how useless he feels, although he has never once tried to be useful. Here’s what I mean, I won’t be too spoilery, but on Angel there is a certain character who didn’t have any fighting skills, yet said character got tired of being the damsel in distress and asked Angel to teach them how to fight so said character could learn to fend for themselves and not have Angel worry about having to save their butt all the time, which is one of the many reasons this character is my favorite Buffyverse character. There is another character that lacked fighting skills on Angel as well and taught themselves how to fight and ended up being a pretty badass character. And then we have Xander Harris, a guy who always talks but never takes action. How many times throughout the course of his series has he whined about feeling useless, yet we don’t see him ever going to Buffy and saying “Hey Buff, mind teachin’ me some of those cool fighting skills you’ve got so I feel like I’m actually contributing to this group by doing something other than fix all your broken furniture?” No instead he’s just gonna stand in the background being a douchey hypocrite pretending to be a nice guy. I could go on for hours and hours on why I hate Xander. From his ‘I’m dating Cordelia, cheating with Willow, while in love with Buffy’ days to now where he is all ‘Buffy how could you sleep with Spike, that soulless, evil vampire?’ while he was dating, engaged, lived with, and almost married an ex-vengeance demon who caused the torture, suffering, and death of many.
    Speaking of Anya, I have this theory of where her fear of bunnies might have come from. Maybe her fear developed after watching too much Xena: Warrior Princess and Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
    Now I’m not going to comment on Lessons yet because I haven’t rewatched it in a while. There are a few things I do remember that bothered me like the new opening credits. They were pretty bad compared to the previous seasons. The sound effects in them either missing in places where they were supposed to be or they sounded really bad for some reason in the places they were. I think of these bad credits as foreshadowing the overall season. And has anyone noticed how in this last two seasons Buffy isn’t at the end of the credits. Sarah Michelle Gellar is, but not Buffy. It’s Buffybot in Season 6 and The First now. I just thought that was interesting.
    One more thing, when I first watched Buffy I watched it one episode a day and once I got to season four started watching Angel too and watched one episode of the two shows a day. So after every episode I couldn’t wait to see the next one so I would watch the original Buffy promo’s which I found on YouTube for all seven season after each episode and I thought you guys might enjoy them, if you haven’t already seen them.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/SunnydaleArchives/search?query=promos

  9. I really wanted to leave a voicemail this week but I’ve been hit with morning/all-day sickness big time. Maybe next week.

    Lessons is a good rewatch episode, but was a little all over the place. Sets up a lot of stuff but is confusing. Also, they seem to imply that that was Dawn’s first vamp staking, but she dusted her make out partner in “All The Way”. Good call back to Becoming when she missed the vamp’s heart.

  10. Hi guys, I’ve been listening for a few months and that’s me almost caught up. I just thought I’d leave a comment on a few things you guys have discussed in the last few podcasts.

    1. Anya.

    Cordia said that she thought Two To Go would’ve had more of an impact if Anya had died. Not only do I agree (although I would’ve been sad to see her go), I think it would’ve been a fitting end for her character. She would’ve come full circle from the character who was re-introduced at the end of season three. She was newly human, very selfish and had no moral compass. her first instinct when she learned of the mayor was to run and save herself. Now, after over two years with Xander and the scoobies, and back to being a demon, she makes the decision to stay and help buffy and the gang try to stop Willow. If she had paid for that decision with her life it would’ve been extremely emotional and very poignant.

    2. The calling of a new slayer.

    You guys were discussing why a new slayer was not called after The Gift. I wonder how The Watcher’s council would’ve reacted to Buffy’s death. Were they kept in the dark like everyone else outside the scoobies? I can’t help but feel they would’ve tried to kill Faith so that a new slayer would be called. I certainly wouldn’t put it past them…

    Anyway, love the podcast guys. Keep up the good work!


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