Posted by: thebuffyrewatch | October 24, 2011

Podcast #42: Lovers Walk

Here’s the podcast for Season 3, Episode 8 – Lover’s Walk

Spike scaring Willow

Spike scaring Willow

Download: Lovers Walk

RSS Feed: The Buffy Rewatch

The next podcast will appear on Monday 31st October 2011 for episode eight of Season Three: “The Wish.” In case you can’t remember that’s the one where Anya grants Cordelia’s wish that Buffy never came to Sunnydale.

Comment on this post to get your views on the podcast.

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Responses

  1. THE WISH:

    This has always been one of my favorite episodes of
    season 3.

    There is so much I could say about this episode but I’m
    going to keep it simple. If I could describe this episode
    in one word, it would be : flawless.

    It’s always fun to see a “what if” kind of reality, even if it’s
    a dark and depressing one, but it just shows that the series
    can go with such dark material, and can do it well.

    P.S – How sexy was vampire Willow?

  2. Get ready for another obnoxiously long comment because here it comes…

    The Wish is a fun episode its hard coming right after Lover’s Walk which was such a great episode full of character development for the Wish to live up to that and unfortunately The Wish doesn’t reach quite the same level. I am sucker for alternative universe type of episodes that happen every so often in television, in that I usually enjoy them, but the problem with The Wish (and all of these kinds of episodes) is there is no real story movement in the “real world”.

    The best that alternate universe episodes can do is shed light on some of the relationships and things going on in the “real world”. The Wish tries to do these things by not only showing us what Sunnydale would be like without Buffy but what Buffy and the other characters would be like if Buffy had never be apart of their lives but none of what they show us is really earth-shattering or interesting stuff. AltBuffy without her friends is more like Faith, it is an interesting and reasonable concept but all it really does is make me dislike Buffy so when the Master snaps her neck at the end of the episode I didn’t really care. (Quick sidenote: the ridiculous scar on AltBuffy’s lips also could have been adding to the dislike) AltXander and AltWillow are vampires without Buffy to protect them and teach them how to fight but that’s no big surprise. It is kind of interesting in that we learn if Buffy had a Watcher that wasn’t Giles she’d be even more rebellious and unable to control but it isn’t surprising considering we know how strong Giles and Buffy are together and how well matched they are as Watcher and Slayer, probably the one thing the Watcher’s Council did right though given their track record I highly doubt it was intentional.

    It’s not that I think everything with the alternate universe didn’t work I actually quite enjoyed some bits it was kind of appealing in a morbid kind of way seeing Sunnydale in this post-apocalyptic way. I liked the little touches in the school of the garlic on the lockers, AltGiles running his slaying operation, seeing the Master again (who I feel is underrated villain and deserved better than season 1). I also liked some of the comedy in the episode, the >aster has a few good lines and so does VampXander and I think the monthly memorial that the teacher mentions is a kind of meta-joke on the show considering how many deaths occur in the “real world” and I really enjoy it.

    The best parts of the alternate universe however are VampWillow and AltUniverseAngel. I’ve already mentioned how the fact that Willow is a vampire is not very surprising or interesting but seeing how demented and sick she is really goes to show how evil the demon that is the vampire can be, we have seen Angelus and how conniving and evil he and how threatening Spike can be but somehow seeing Willow is just as bad. Willow is probably the sweetest and most innocent character on the show at this point so seeing evil Willow really registers. AltAngel registers in a different way because it is really pathetic and incredibly depressing to see caged up and tortured Angel and all because Buffy didn’t come to Sunnydale. It goes along with the effort the show has been making lately to make Angel more sympathetic and likable in this season and on that level the alternative universe works.

    The start of the episode that happens in the “real world” is the best and strongest part of the episode and while I did enjoy the alternate universe it did hold my interest as much as the first few minutes and it makes me wish the whole hour had been spent in “real time” not in AltSunnydale.

    I appreciate that we get to see Oz’s reaction to the kiss, considering it was bumped out of the last episode. I like the fact that it stays in character with him being someone who doesn’t like to show or share his emotions. It makes sense that he would need to time away from Willow and wouldn’t want to discuss what happened. As hard as it is to watch because we see how badly it affects Willow my favorite part of that scene is when Oz tells Willow the only reason she wants to talk to her feel better not make him feel better. It is a really good point and a line that is delivered extremely well by Seth Green and that makes it my favorite moment of the episode.

    They also do a still do really good job of making Cordelia sympathetic in this episode so much so that it also becomes uncomfortable to watch. Even so it does create some of my favorite moments of the episode because it shows how far Cordelia has fallen and how deeply Xander’s betrayal has affected her. A part of me feels that the writers are almost being too cruel to her not only has she been cheated on by the first boy she ever really loved, lost all her friends, gets thrown in to the trash, is the bottom rung of the social ladder at high school, has been impaled by re-bar and almost died but she is the first character they kill off in the alternate universe and it is much more drawn out and brutal than Willow, Buffy, Angel or Xander. As sympathetic as they make Cordelia it does seem a bit of leap that she wishes Buffy had never come to Sunnydale, I think we can see in the final scene it really is more of a series of wishes and it is more of her venting than actually wishing it would happen but I didn’t totally buy that she’d blame it all on Buffy.

    Lastly…

    This Week in Xander’s-A-Douchebag: There is a moment with Xander earlier in the episode where he says it really is Oz and Cordelia’s fault they walked in on them. It is a moment that is played for laughs which is fine but it really makes Xander unlikable in a way that he hadn’t been before, because you can say he is joking but you can see that a part of him believes what he is saying. Not only that but Xander is incredibly unlikable the whole time in the “real world”. He sulks when he can’t touch Willow’s and is angry that Cordelia is angry at him. I almost laughed out when he said he was done feeling guilty at the Bronze because I was unaware of a moment when he was guilty. This all within Xander’s character at this point so I think its good writing and characterization but I wish Willow and Buffy had been more angry at Xander for the way he was acting then just the couple lines that Cordelia was justified and they should feel sorry for her.

    (I can’t believe I actually wrote more than Lover’s Walk, seriously if you guys ever want to add a third member to the podcast please consider me because I don’t think writing this much for no real reason is healthy haha)

  3. Thanks for the comments, guys! It’s such a blast to read these and know the podcast is sparking such in depth thought and conversation. 😀 Derek, I’m afraid we’re not interviewing right now for a third host, but I love your reviews! Keep it up. Thanks!!

  4. I seem to have just broken my middle finger, which makes typing hard, so I’ll keep this short.
    The Wish is spectacular. I think that seeing what could have happened and how dark everything could have turned out is simply amazing, awe-inspiring, and actually quite shocking.
    Nice job on Lover’s Walk, by the way!

  5. We have trouble keeping the podcasts to an hour right now 🙂

  6. I understand as much I would love to be apart of the podcast I was mostly kidding anyway and I do enjoy writing my reviews as unnecessarily long as they might be

    • I do throw my metaphorical hat into the ring if you ever decide to do an angel podcast, as much as I can talk about Buffy I can talk even more about Angel

  7. Well keep the comments coming, I always love hearing what other people think. There’s always an angle I hadn’t considered.

  8. Hey guys, just wanted to say that I’m a massive fan of the podcast as well as Buffy. I was about 5/7 of the way done with Buffy in my first viewing of the series when I found you guys, and I love listening to your opinions on the series.

    That being said, I’m sure you guys will be thorough as always, so I just wanted to make a couple short comments.

    The alter-egos of Xander and Willow really make the episode feel like a nice bookend to their relationship. In the real universe, their affair was completely doomed to fail from the start. But apparently in another dimension it could have been… it just would have meant that the two of them were vampires. That’s why I think Cordelia’s observation about the two of them is great, it shows that even as polar opposites of their usual characters they would still be attracted to each other. It makes you think about what would have happened between the two of them had Buffy never shown up in Sunnydale. Maybe Xander would have noticed Willow as he eventually did. That’s why I think the ambiguity is a nice touch: we’re never sure if the two of them get together pre- or post-vampification, but Cordelia seems upset either way. On a side note, I also really enjoy the continuity with the Master and his factory and seeing what his eventual plans for Sunnydale would have been.

    I have one grievance about this episode. In Prophecy Girl and most of season one the coming of the Master is touted as the opening of the Hellmouth and destruction of the entire world. As far as I can tell, a world where students still retain enough freedom to go to school and be out on their own, even in the day seems to give too much credence to the humans’ fighting abilities. And didn’t the Hellmouth open directly under the library?!?! The tentacled monster that almost killed the Scoobies came right where Giles and the white hats used for their “base” without the floor being so much as cracked. Its a plot detail that the writers seemed to have forgotten about, like a lack of the Anointed One and Spike.

  9. Lover’s Walk:
    I think there’s another Buffy-first: It is Willows first try to do a spell that has an effect on the feelings and thoughts of others (without them being aware of this). Of course her intentions are good, but she must know there’s something wrong about that because she hides it from Xander and the others

    The Wish:
    I don’t think it’s a brilliant episode but I like it and I always enjoy watching it. We see what Buffy would be like if she were nothing more than the slayer. It’s a good story that shos how much impact the others have on Buffy’s life and the impact she has on theirs

    *Cordelia really looks upset and bad at the beginng but back at school she looks awesome…like she puts on a mask and tries to force her back in her old life

    *Willow&Oz scene in the school is great where he says that he can’t help feeling like she’s more concerned with making herself feeling better than what he needs. He’s very sensitive, would I be in his position I think I would feel to hurt and angry to think/care about the feelings of my partner.

    *The “other” Buffy seems to be more like Kendra, with no friends, no own life, no wish to be a normal girl, no hope (and no colourful clothes 🙂 )

    *In this alternative reality the prophecy, that the Master kills Buffy, comes true

    *Angel being captured by the Master could be a reference to The Harvest. When Buffy is in the crypt looking for the entrance to the Masters lair and Angel appears she asks him to follow or to help fight them but he is too afraid.

    *My favourite scene is when Anyanka asks Giles how he can be sure there’s a better world and he answers “because there has to be”..I just love how he acts in this scene


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