Posted by: thebuffyrewatch | February 24, 2014

Podcast #145: Lies My Parents Told Me

Here’s the podcast for Season 7, Episode 17 – Lies My Parents Told Me

Robin shows Spike his Itunes

Robin shows Spike his Itunes

Download: Lies My Parents Told Me

RSS Feed: The Buffy Rewatch

The next podcast will appear on Monday 3rd March 2014 for episode eighteen of Season Seven: “Dirty Girls.” The First sends another agent of darkness into Sunnydale.

Comment on this post to get your views on the podcast.

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  1. I didn’t enjoy Lies My Parents Told Me as much the 2nd time around, because I had some of the same issues that Robin did. Why on earth would Buffy be that blind as to unchain an obviously distressed Spike that just threw a bed at Dawn and tried to choke her? They were obviously making a point about Buffy having a blind spot over Spike, but I think it just seemed really insane. Although I suppose Buffy had the same blind spots with Angel, by keeping his return from Hell a secret and continuing their relationship when it was what caused him to temporarily be soulless anyway.

    On first watch, this episode also solidified my growing dislike of how the writers were treating Giles’ character. I was already ticked that he left during the major low point of Buffy’s life, and now when she is stressed and dealing with a new leadership role, he is trying to interfere in ways that will upset her. I find it very strange that he left in season 6 in order to push her toward being an adult and making her own choices – basically leaving her to do it all herself so she would grow up – and now he just wants to go back into their Watcher/Slayer role, one that he kept trying to shake off ever since the beginning of season 4. While he has good reasons for wanting to interfere, it seemed like the exact opposite of what he had been doing since they graduated from high school. [Spoiler time – events that happened at the end of the season 8 comic has softened me on Giles, but it’s still a weird way to take his character.]

    Also, I wanted to say that it is really unfortunate that we aren’t discussing Angel at all because it sheds huge light into other aspects of Spike’s character. I would argue that Spike’s character is not understood without taking into account the additional mythology that is only shown on the Angel show, including a direct response to Derek’s question about wondering why newly vamped Spike would act the way he would towards his mother. [Specifically the episode where Spike and Angel fight over that goblet of somesuch and Spike accuses Angel of making him into the monster he became.] If time were no issue, the Buffy Rewatch could totally be redone with spoilers, and there would still be hours and hours of new discussion! Buffy is just awesome like that.

    Hopefully I will get back in time to rewatch and write thoughts on Dirty Girls, but if I don’t get to it, I want to say that I despise the character of Caleb, he’s uncomfortable to watch and if I hadn’t seen Nathan Fillion as other characters first, I probably wouldn’t be able to stand seeing him on screen. I get a total visceral reaction to this character and it makes it hard to watch these episodes.

    • I just rewatched that scene from Angel and I still have a bit of a problem with Angel making Spike into a monster instead of the bite and turning doing that. However I do think Angel season five (which I love) does a way better job of explaining how Spike and Angel are different with their souls. Buffy season seven never really explains or shows properly how Spike’s soul has changed him and how that makes him different from Angel.

  2. Oh, I forgot to mention that I read that the mystery of Principal Wood’s shirt is solved. Apparently, they needed him to have his shirt on to hide the harness that tosses him into the wall after Spike comes back to after the flashbacks and hit him. Now, why they had him take it off at all, I don’t know. But that’s why he put it back on.

  3. Beautiful shoulders. He took it off because beautiful shoulders.

    • Missing opportunity to not have a shirtless Spike also!

  4. I’m siding with Cordia on this one, Robin is a pretty pretty man 😛

    Now let’s get back to the most important debate. Who is worse Riley or Kennedy?

    I’m putting my vote for Kennedy. Especially on Rewatch.

    • Sorry but I have to say Riley. For me Kennedy’s faults are partly camouflaged by being surrounded by lots of annoying potentials.

      But it’s a close call…..

      • Until Kennedy performs surgery on herself by digging a chip out of her shoulder with her bare hands, she’s always going to be worse then Riley. Besides Riley had way more chemistry with his gay lover…

    • I’m going to split this up and say season 5 Riley is the worst, then Kennedy and at least I can laugh about season 4 Riley, or at him ..

      • Hmm Kennedy or Riley. I have to say Riley is worse, because of his woe is me act when Buffy was trying to cope with her mother’s illness and the way he gave her an ultimatum when he had been the one who had been doing wrong. Kennedy is annoying and childish.

  5. Re: Dirty Girls….

    Things I liked:

    It makes sense for Faith to come back in – especially as she’s also threatened by the First (in fact it would have made more sense earlier this season….)

    Great conversation between Spike and Faith in basement. There are many similarities between the two and I love Faith referencing her time in Buffy’s body. And talking about bodies….James Marsters still looks ridiculously beautiful. Also very much liked Buffy’s reaction when she finds the two of them together.

    Not Sure:

    I like Nathan Fillion as a charismatic actor but his dark and twisted preacher character just seems a bit out of place on Buffy and it confused me. He obviously has a big hang up on sex and sex seems to come up at the scooby house a lot in this episode – what we are supposed to take from that? That, compared to Caleb’s insanity, Xander’s wet dreams about underage girls are nice and healthy?

    Not so good:

    Sunnydale growing a vineyard suddenly.

    Buffy’s reasoning for taking the Potentials to Caleb just doesn’t make sense. She talks about not having enough time but we haven’t seen anything about a threat with a timescale. In fact the threat is still a bit hazy altogether.

    Also from what we understand of the potentials they are just very young women with no special powers at all and not necessarily much enthusiasm. They seem more likely to be a liability than anything else in a fight – why take them at all?

    Also I haven’t warmed to them much and I was just really really pleased when the one with the awful London accent died. So there was no emotional punch for me in their failure and losses.

  6. Dirty Girls
    Yay! Faith is back! Just what I have been missing this season.
    I liked Andrew’s speech about Faith and the montage. I thought that was kind of funny, only Andrew would hear volcanologist and think Vulcans. Although when did Andrew become so insightful about Faith? I do like how Andrew nods his head when the asian chick says something, because nobody knows what shes saying.

    My favorite scene is with Faith and Spike in the basement. I like how Faith keeps looking up the stairs every time she gets closer to Spike. Like she knows she shouldn’t be doing it. I love the obvious flirting that they exchange. Faith being Faith probably thinks she can sleep with him, especially since he is laying naked with nothing but a sheet covering him. I don’t think that Spike would have slept with her but he enjoys knowing that another slayer is into him. Then Buffy comes in and Faith gets that there was something going on between them and she gets up. I like how spike asks why she’s not at work, almost like he didn’t want her to come in.

    Another great scene is Buffy and Faith’s talk/walk in the woods. I will bring this up more in the next episode, but it’s nice to see them talking again even though buffy questions why Faith is there. Also one of my favorite lines from Faith “Damn, I never knew you were that cool.” And Buff’s great reply of “You always were a little slow.” Those two still got it. Always love the Buffy & Faith love/hate relationship.

    Finally, poor Xander. Apparently Joss Whedon wanted to kill off Xander and when the producers said no he decided he would lose an eye. But remember what Dawn said to him in Potential, that Xander was the guy that sees things, that it’s his gift. Caleb even says to him that he’s the one that sees things, right before he pokes his thumb into his eye. Well now he only has one eye, what does that say about Xander now? Does he still see thing?

    Then there is Nathan Fillion as Caleb. I’m not sure about the evil preacher character but it’s nice to see an actual physical threat to the First’s plan. This guy has got a lot of power, and him just tossing Buffy aside shows that he his tougher and it will be interesting to see how Buffy takes him out. Overall this is probably my favorite episode of the season and with Faith back it definitely makes me want to watch the last few episodes up to the finale.

  7. I excepted to like Faith in this episode because I remembered liking her the first time around and on Rewatch she’s one of my favorite characters of the Buffyverse. So already I had higher exceptations then most season 7 episodes so I thought I was setting myself up for failure but I actually enjoyed this.

    For starters Faith is great in every scene and so far has not suffered from the season 7 epidemic of wild personality shifts, even if someone hasn’t seen Angel and they should, this is still Faith.

    As for Caleb I love Nathan Fillion and at times he fools me into thinking this character is interesting but it’s not. Fillion is good at be threatening but Buffy is better then a preacher who hates women and that’s his only motivation. Still he’s does more to threaten and harm Buffy in one episode then the First has done all season.

    This episode does something that has been missing for season 7 where the Scoobies actually discuss their plans. So for it’s been Buffy makes some unilateral decision that is based of nothing but still works out. Here Buffy still does make a unilateral decision that is based of nothing but at least they discuss it. Her reasoning doesn’t make a whole lot of sense but they went to the effort to try explain it. That’s loads better then speech, fight and win for reasons. Also I kind of like that Buffy loses because she’s been making wrong decisions all season and somehow nothing bad has happened at least here it does blow up I her face.

    Of course there are still the season long problems: Andrew continuing to believe he’s funny, Kennedy thinking she’s strong despite getting knocked down first and Molly’s accent. Though I suppose that one is finally taken care of.

    P.S. I’m 99% sure “Dirty Girls” besides being Calebs catch phrase is a reference to “Bad Girls” where Faith killed the mayor’s deputy.

  8. When I first saw this episode I thought something must really be going wrong if I’m happy to see Faith again and even though I disliked her much less on rewatch that is still true. I haven’t watched Angel yet but I guess Faith being in prison would explain why she hasn’t shown up before now? I especially like all of her scenes with Spike, they have a great dynamic.

    As for Caleb, I’m gonna start with the positive: After the First doing basically nothing all that bad apart from killing a few potentials nobody cared about, seeing Xander get seriously hurt finally feels like there is a real threat and that our heroes are in danger. They’ve been talking about it for the whole season but until now we never really saw it.
    But otherwise I really really dislake his character. Maybe it’s partly because we just had Warren the misogynist last season and Caleb feels like the more extreme version of him. I liked his first scene in the car where he seems nice before he reveals who he actually is, but everything after that was basically the same thing over and over again: I hate women, I love the First. And I wasn’t interested in hearing him go on and on about that, so I loved the moment during his speech before the fight at the end when they cut to Spike’s face that just seemed to say “Who is this guy and what the hell is he talking about?”

    I’m interested in how the Scoobys will react to Buffy’s really stupid decision to walk right into Caleb’s trap without finding out anything about him beforehand, especially Xander. First he gives a great speech about how they should trust Buffy and how she cares about all of them, and then he looses an eye because of that.

  9. Dirty Girls has all the elements of a good Buffy story. Nathan Fillion brings enough charisma to make his cliched horror character interesting, and there’s finally a real threat plus some good fight scenes, character moments, and humor. And Faith is a welcome shot of personality in the season.

    But for some reason, this episode just didn’t engage me. I think it’s mostly the unsympathetic way Buffy’s character has been written. A few moments of vulnerability would do a lot to bring me back into Buffy’s corner, but this season’s seems to be about Buffy freezing out her friends, and in the process, she’s freezing me out too. (I don’t think SMG, who I thought was really great as the First this week – as Buffy, they’re asking her to plan an unsympathetic character, and she’s succeeding).

    A couple nitpicks:

    – Why won’t anyone pay Buffy? Robin could have just told her to go home but kept paying her. And if the mission is so important, why does Robin get to keep HIS job?

    – The Faith-Vulcan fight was hilarious, but does Andrew literally believe that Faith fought a vulcan? I have trouble believing that he’s that dumb, but could still successfully summon demons and live.

    48/100, even though on paper, it looks like it should be high 60s.

  10. Ok, finally watched Dirty Girls. I loved the bits with Faith, how they crafted the story. I felt like it was really complementary to the preceding Angel episodes, but also stands alone as there is a lot of history between Faith and it also does a good job of showing her confusion at being out of the picture for awhile and her adjusting. I liked her conversation with Spike and her incredulity at Buffy’s feistiness that she didn’t know about.

    I also felt really bad for Buffy at the end. I understand how she wanted to stop being a sitting duck and go after the threat, but she was also feeling tremendous remorse at how terribly it went. It was like she was up against Glory-style power again that she couldn’t even make a dent in, and I don’t think she was anticipating that, especially after the injured potential made it sound like Caleb was just a human.

    Caleb in general gives me the willies, and I found some of the scenes hard to watch (looked away when Xander had his eye gouged out). He is over the top, and other than being demon possessed, I can’t imagine why anyone would be worshiping the first, but okay. I usually find bad guys that make sense to me to be more engaging than those that want “world domination” or some other unexplained power grab.

  11. As I said last week, when I first watched this season, it was back to back straight through. I love the villain Caleb. I think he is in my top 5 of the best villains this show has ever produced. He is seemingly worried about the potential he picks up in the beginning of the episode until it is revealed that he is actually the bad guy. He is sadistic but in a charismatic/likeable way. And I loved that they don’t tell you immediately what kind of power he has. The first time he smacked Buffy across the room and calmly says “what else you got?” – OMG! Loved it! Completely out of the blue! So now we are left wondering, what is he? Human, demon, none of the above? That is the major hook for me for the next episode. I want to know who and/or what Caleb is!

    I still can’t watch the screen when Xander loses his eye. It’s not even the gross of it (I’m a Navy corpsman, takes more than that to gross me out!) It’s knowing what’s happening and knowing that a character that, as I’ve said before, I’ve grown up with is about to get seriously hurt. I am very emotionally attached to these characters so seeing them get hurt like that is like seeing one of my very own friends get hurt. Also, since its in the past and I am now in spoiler free territory, Xander’s speech that he gives to Dawn earlier makes me cry not only for the speech, but also because I know what’s going to happen to him as a result of the speech.

    Seeing Faith back is awesome. I am really glad they brought her into the final season. Only thing missing now to complete everything is Angel! Well see I guess 🙂

    This is the small snowball that leads to an avalanche. Though I am sorry the podcast is coming to an end, I am excited for the episodes to come!

  12. I really enjoyed Dirty Girls. It was great to see Faith back. Her entrance into the graveyard was great. I especially enjpyed “Am I the good Slayer now?” and her attacking Spike. Speaking of Spike I liked the little exchange the basement between her and Spike. Buffy didn’t like that at all.

    Nathan Fillion is great as Caleb, so twisted and sadistic. Although, his “good
    Samaritan” role was the usual season 7 misleading the audience again.

    Poor Buffy played right into the First’s hands. This has to cause repercussions among the Scoobies and the Potentials. They are already questioning her judgement and now Xander once her biggest cheerleader has gotten very hurt due to her stupidity. The season seemed to be leading up to this – Buffy’s stupid decision to walk into the trap. The First has stepped things up and there is an imminent threat once again. About time really.

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