Posted by: thebuffyrewatch | March 4, 2014

Podcast #146: Dirty Girls

I forgot to mention that we are taking a week off! See you in two weeks.

Here’s the podcast for Season 7, Episode 18 – Dirty Girls

Caleb is not going for a high five

Caleb is not going for a high five

Download: Dirty Girls

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The next podcast will appear on Monday 17th March 2014 for episode eighteen of Season Seven: “Empty Places.” As things with Caleb escalate.

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  1. Empty Places
    This is another good episode that follows last weeks and I always watch the two back to back. I like the scene in the hospital it’s very emotional. Poor Xander its just like him to make jokes about parrots and eye patches during serious moments. Willow’s emotions are great, I love the relationship those two have. Her reaction to what happened to Xander was beautiful, it almost made me cry. Buffy’s reaction was weird but I think she was too upset to stay because she thinks its her fault.

    I thought the scene in the basement where Anya was teaching and Andrews drawings was kind of funny. I like Faith’s comment about having Xander first in order to shut up Anya. Giles telling Andrew to shut up was awesome, then he sends him with Spike to get rid of him.

    Faith dancing at the Bronze was just a matter of time, it feels like Buffy again. And the band playing is Nerfherder, who does the opening credits song. I think were suppose to cheer for the potentials helping Faith beat up the cops, but I could have done without the cops altogether. They seem to be there just to remind us that Faith is a wanted murderer, but we already knew that. I guess we just needed one last fight at the Bronze. I like when Buffy hits Faith and Faith doesn’t fight back. The old Faith would hit back butt his is new Faith. As much as we all love slayer on slayer fights, it’s nice to see that she really has changed. Did Buffy hit her knowing she wouldn’t didn’t back? Cause Buffy doesn’t seem to think Faith has changed, I guess she just got lucky.

    And then there is the ending speech. This is probably my favorite Buffy speech this season. It’s the most powerful. Buffy’s true feelings about Faith come through. Her theory about her trying to steal her life again may seem off, but not from Buffy’s point of view. Last episode Faith says that she was in Angel’s mind and Buffy stops, probably because Buffy is jealous. She always wanted to know what goes on in Angel’s head, she failed in Earshot. Then Buffy sees faith and Spike in the basement and thinks Faith is trying to get with another one of Buffys guys. Plus faith calls it out about Buffys lack of connection with the potentials. So naturally Buffy thinks Faith is here to take over her life again. I do like that Giles yells at Buffy to stop.

    Anya’s speech was nice, she makes a good point that Buffy was just given the powers without first earning it, of course she has earned and proven herself ever since but so have some of the other Scoobies. It is clear that Buffy and everyone are on different pages but it’s nice to see them finally stand up to her and expressing their feelings. I really felt bad for Dawn having to kick her sister out, that must have been very difficult to do. I wasn’t that sad about Buffy getting kicked out but I did like her line to Faith at the end.

  2. This screen cap almost looks like Rona is winning…. -Cordia

  3. Empty Places actually kinda ticks me off every time I watch it. My husband won’t watch it/doesn’t care for it for the following reason: he thinks those girls are selfish and stupid for creating a mutiny in the house. I agree, but maybe on a lesser level. The show is called Buffy tVS, not Faith tVS, so it is only a matter of time till she is back again.

    The scene between the original scoobies is nice and necessary. It shows each of them dealing with it in the best way they know how. Buffy has always shown that she doesn’t do well sharing emotion and deals better with it alone. Willow has always been an emotional character and doesn’t mind showing tears when the situation calls for it. Xander cracks jokes. Although we have seen him be the “Zeppo” character a few times, here, it seems more appropriate for his character to try to crack jokes and make light of it. I like that he shows he needs the jokes when he pleaded with Willow to not cry. The only thing missing is Giles’ response to the situation. As far as we have seen, he hasn’t even seen Xander since it happened, and he doesn’t really react to it when Xander walks in the house.

    Andrew and Spike finding that carving on the wall only proves Buffy right. Them finding that carving stating that it is for her use only and learning that Caleb went psycho after reading it only proves that he really does have something that is meant for her. We don’t know what and we don’t know what it will give her in the way of advantage (if it does at all) but we know he isn’t happy about it and it just proves her right.

    The fight at the Bronze was something that was going to happen inevitably, but it is understandable and believable that the girls all seem to know that it is the Hellmouth activity and not necessarily just the “cops fight” that caused it to happen. Buffy’s reaction is also believable, especially when you see how much weight she is carrying for them at the end.

    I will admit, Buffy does come on a little strong telling people that she needs them to fall in line and just follow her blindly, but I also think she is right. Being in the Navy, I lived 8 years of falling in line. I wasn’t allowed to question orders; especially as it was in the time of war as Buffy and the others are in. One of the general orders of sentry states “I will obey the orders of those appointed over me”. This is a clear statement; in a democratic society by the way; that helps create order in an otherwise chaotic situation. It gives people direction and makes it so that the person with the most experience (aka: Buffy) makes the best judgement calls.

    I also believe that Buffy was right in saying that the girls only wanted Faith to lead because they got the chance to get drunk with her and “pal around” as she puts it, but what about Giles, Willow, and Xander? Faith tried to kill each of them on at least one occasion, but even they seem to be siding with her. I just don’t get it. Thank you however, Faith, for pointing out that you didn’t think you were the one to lead. In all of this, it seems Faith is the only one that feels that Buffy should still be in charge which kinda threw me a little.

    I don’t usually say this about anybody (even make-believe characters) but I really hope Caleb knocks Rona’s head off. I really don’t like her and she is just getting more and more annoying to me as the season moves on. Kick her ass Dawn!

    My favorite scene was the very last. Faith trying to express that she didn’t want things to go that way and Buffy just says “Don’t be afraid to lead them. Whether you wanted it or not, their lives are yours.” Of all her speeches this season, this one is the best and it’s only two lines.

  4. As you know, I am playing catch up and I recently listened to the final podcasts of season 4 and Buffy vs. Dracula. Here are my comments:

    For the Yoko Factor:
    I actually really enjoy this episode. Seeing Spike up to his old tricks again without any “backlash” is awesome. I like how he says to Adam “Not a thing” when Adam asks him what he is going to do if he can’t hurt them. It was so classic the way he broke them apart…yeah, he did it BEFORE Willow decrypted the disk, but hey, he did it! And I totally agree with Cordia about how he did it kind of half-heartedly. Answering their questions about the “seed implanted” but kind of ignoring them as well was a great way to throw them off his track when the big fight happened. Had he been more pushy about it, they would have figured it out.

    I am sorry, I know you guys didn’t seem like big fans of the fight, but I thought it was very funny. Yes, the tension was a little hard to watch because of the love for the characters, if I had been there I would have done what Tara and Anya did and just quietly went into another room and let them go at it. But come on! You can’t tell me that when Xander turns to Willow and says “Tara’s your GIRLFRIEND?!” and then you hear “Bloody Hell!” from upstairs that you didn’t laugh your butt off the first time! I still do! And Giles’ response of Bloody Hell is the only response you could ever have to that! There is no “American” way to say that without being crass about it. (At least the way I interpret “bloody hell”, correct me if I am wrong Robin)

    This episode is fun and exciting for me right up until Buffy is fighting Adam. The spell was cool and different and I thought it was a neat idea, but it was kinda boring to me. A lot of people wrote in and expressed how they felt it was a Matrix style thing, I can’t say I actually agree with that. I love the Matrix and this scene, as I said, bored the crap out of me. I did like the part when Adam tells Buffy he has been upgrading though. That got a chuckle out of me. Overall, as many have said before, this was a bitter end to a bitter season.

    I actually liked this episode a lot. I know Cordia, that you don’t agree with that, but when I watched this season, it was back to back, like you. (I had missed a lot of it live because my parents and I were moving and getting settled, so not a lot of tv time and Netflix didn’t exist then!) and I guess a lot of it made more sense to me because, unfortunately, I had already seen season 5, so a lot of the “hint, hint, nudge, nudge” stuff I got immediately. I do agree with you that this sucked as a season ender though. I also feel that it would have had a much better impact had it been at the beginning of season 5 or somewhere close to it.

    Buffy vs. Dracula:
    The episode itself was fun, but my comments here are more about your comments then the episode. I was getting very intense about Dracula’s back-story while listening to your podcast. I am actually an avid Dracula/vampire fan in general. I have seen almost all of the makes of Dracula with the king of Dracula’s, Bela Lugosi, being my favorite. To answer your question, the “Three” are not his daughters. They are his wives. Also, I had a question, and I apologize if this has already been addressed (I am about to start episode 2 of season 5), why isn’t Buffy a vampire? Dracula drank her blood and then she drank his, so why is she not a vampire? That’s how it works. (Reference Season 1: Welcome to the Hellmouth)

    Continuing to catch up! Will you guys still be here when its finished if I have comments for Season 6?? Probably not, but hey, a girl can dream!

    • Just to clarify, Robin, I know you can’t say this on air, but I wanted to tell you what my interpretation of “Bloody Hell” is so you can tell me if I am wrong. I see that as “What the F*” basically. So you can see what I mean when I say there is no American way to say that without being crass about it…..

    • I have listened to a lot more since I posted these and a couple of comments:

      You guys keep bringing up the cat in Faith/Buffy dream from season 3 as if it were a glimpse of Dawn. If you watch carefully, you actually see the cat change to Faith and back again a couple of times. It was my impression that the cat is actually Faith. The following solidifies that belief: “Who’s gonna take care of her?” “Beats me, don’t these things usually take care of themselves?” This too me feels like Buffy asking who is going to take care of Faith and Faith assuring her that she can take care of herself.

      Another thing that is continuing to be a topic of discussion is the scene from Hush when Xander realizes he can’t talk and he blames Spike. You guys have said that the gesture Spike does to Xander is a “British form” of flipping someone off… I had no idea what you were talking about when you mentioned it in Hush, but when you brought it up again in Season 5 saying that they put it in the credits, I got it. I don’t think that was what was intended. I saw it as Xander saying “You did this to me” and Spike responding with “2 of us, we both can’t talk!” As I didn’t know that different countries had different gestures mean different things at the time, I can only imagine that Joss didn’t intend for that to mean anything more in depth than that.

      The last podcast I listened to was Family. I love that episode. It seems that the episodes that I love the most just happen to be Joss episodes and I didn’t even know it! (I am not one to pay attention to credits so I usually only know who wrote it by listening to you guys). I laugh every time Spike walks up to Tara, taps her on the shoulder and then just punches her in the face. It is just played out so comically! Also, best 5 lines of the entire Spike story: “Out for a walk….Bitch” Love it!!

      Sorry there is so much to say. What you guys get for taking a week off 🙂 Hope you had a fun vaca!

  5. I had read something very negative about Empty Places and I think when I first watched it I got to the bit with Buffy talking to Clem and decided to give it a miss (ridiculous looking demon in a beetle in the middle of town and no one notices? – too silly) so this was the first time I watched the whole episode. As I was expecting it to be awful, I was pleasantly surprised.

    I found the scene with Buffy, Willow and Xander at the hospital quite touching – both Buffy’s awkwardness and then Willow and Xander’s failure to keep a pretence of humour.

    Buffy’s greatest strength has been repeatedly shown to be her friends and family so it makes sense that the greatest blow she could suffer would be the loss of them. But I still didn’t ultimately buy that the scoobies would have thrown Buffy out – I especially don’t think Dawn would have said what she did. I feel there was some writing that got lost somewhere. Conversations with Dead People hinted that Dawn would be betrayed by Buffy, and if that had been built upon somehow, then Dawn’s behaviour might have made sense.

  6. Is it possible for their to be a retroactive reference for “The Gift” back to “Nightmares” on the next podcast?

  7. Just to put you out of your misery I will give you a phonetic spelling of my name. It’s ee-fa.
    Anyway Empty Places makes me so angry. Buffy just breaks my heart in this episode. I really feel for her. Some excellent acting by Sarah Michelle Gellar here. I get that everyone is working up over Caleb but throwing her out of the house. How dare they? I just swell up with rage even thinking about it. It’s Dawn that surprises me really. Giles seems to think that because Buffy won’t listen to him, then her decision making ability is automatically faulty. Robin is sore about Buffy having Spike’s back it seems. When Willow and Xander gang up on her, although it is understandable given what has happened that they do. But Dawn telling Buffy she has to leave makes my blood boil. It doesn’t make sense to me and even the manner in which she says it seems a little patronising to me.
    Anyway enough of that. I loved the Andrew and Spike bits. The bonding over the blooming onion was pretty hilarious and Andrew trying to play good cop, bad cop. It was fun to see Giles palm Andrew off on Spike. It’s surprising that Spike didn’t refuse. I think Spike might be secretly fond of him. After all, he did indulge him in Storyteller, letting him record him on camera.
    Overall, excellent episode.

  8. Hi guys, I just wanted to say thanks for a great podcast- It keeps me entertained at school. I know you are nearly finished but I am watching buffy and angel for the first time so it’s really good to have a non spoiler podcast and this is by far the best buffy podcast out there.
    I wanted to send in some thoughts on some episodes in season 5-
    I first listened to this when I watched the episode Blood Ties and I did feel sorry for Dawn. I was told that I wouldn’t like Dawn or Riley and they got it right about Riley but Dawn is a pretty decent character and well acted. Maybe it’s because I am roughly the same age as Dawn (although I can’t relate to her completely seeing as I am not a deadly key thing. An Then Joyce Died in a really moving episode. I didn’t think this episode was as good as everyone says it is but I was really moved by the performances. And Isn’t James Marsters as Spike brilliant.
    When you finish Buffy will you be doing Angel or some buffy commentaries as there aren’t really many commentaries for buffy as other shows 😀
    I will probably send more feedback in another time

  9. It’s reassuring that the people of Sunnydale are keeping up their habit of walking in the middle of the street, even when there are cars everywhere. At least some things never change.

    The tension in the group has been steadily building over the last few episodes and again in this one, so there had to be a confrontation. I really liked the scene in the hospital when everyone is still behaving as you would expect them to, unlike in the scene at the end of the episode, where I found myself being really frustrated by everything and everyone.
    Of couse the potentials wouldn’t hesitate for a second to kick Buffy out and let the cool new girl who lets them party be their leader instead. And I absolutely hate Anya’s speech but it’s not out of character for her to say it. Though it does seem weird that they question Buffy’s leadership role just because she was born as the slayer, but then replace her with Faith who was also born in this position without “earning it”.
    Unlike last episode where I thought Buffy’s decision to storm the vineyard was too rash, her reasoning for going back made a lot of sense here, and even though her “you just need to fall in line” was way over the top, she seemed willing to talk strategy and discuss how they would proceed.
    Giles has spent the whole season pushing Buffy into being the leader and making the hard decisions and now that she does it he turns against her. I also don’t believe that any of the Scoobies would want Faith as their leader. Working with her and seeing and accepting that she’s changed, ok, but she has tried to kill almost all of them at one point or another.
    I was also very annoyed with Robin, because it was his argument that Buffy should test the potentials in battle that played a big part in her decision last episode. I also don’t believe that Dawn would kick Buffy out of the house. It’s just plain stupid, too, they need her, even if they don’t want to follow her as their leader.
    Coming out of this Faith is the only one who’s still looking good, which is a surprise. I also liked the very last scene again, at first you think Buffy is telling Faith to be quiet, but then she gives her advice how to best do the job.

    This whole situation is very similar to the end of season 4, and even though it was Spike’s meddling that pushed them apart then it felt more organic than this. In the way it plays out this feels more contrived than anything.
    There were also a few rather subtle references to Primeval: 1. When Buffy is at the school she’s looking at the same picture of Willow, Xander and herself as she did in Primeval, and 2. she’s wearing a similar outfit, the white shirt with the black top underneath. I have no idea if they did that on purpose but I noticed.

  10. Empty Places:

    I hate being a downer, but unless things turn around in the next three episodes, I think Season Seven has a lock for my “Worst. Season. Ever.” I don’t believe in anyone’s actions, and I don’t care about the characters any more, except maybe Robin and Faith. These episodes are striking me as a scattering of good scenes, surrounded by a morass of inconsistent plotting. I honestly wonder if they wrote out a season arc and had to change it half-way in for some reason, or if they just never wrote one and have built this season as it went along. Did Joss figure that since Angel was the only series up for renewal, he should spend all his energy there?

    For all that, it wasn’t terrible, just not good either. 50/100.

    The good:

    – It was an interesting side of Spike to see him being empathetic and nice to the branded monk, and Spike and Andrew’s visit to the monastery was generally interesting, because it felt like the plot was moving forward.

    – It’s still fun to watch Faith, Caleb, and SMG playing the First, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a show about Robin Wood.

    – I enjoyed seeing Giles and Faith bullying Andrew.

    – The last scene between Buffy and Faith was very good.

    The bad:

    – I feel bad for enjoying seeing Giles and Faith bullying Andrew. It’s like when they used to bully Anya – cruel and not really worthy of our Scoobies. We’ve sunk a long way since the day Xander decided NOT to be mean to Cordy at the dress shop.

    – I don’t buy the First at all. If her goal is to kill all the potentials, why not send Caleb to Buffy’s house and just kill them, particularly when Willow is at the hospital and/or Buffy is at the school? Buffy showed us the Mayor’s literal checklist by mid-season, and I loved that plot. If the First has some reason why she isn’t just killing everyone but Buffy, like they have to die in a special place or time, or that she wants them to know true despair or something, the show should just TELL us, because right now, the First looks stupid.

    – Speaking of looking stupid, here’s Buffy. “Faith, it was dangerously stupid for you to take the potentials to the Bronze and let them get drunk. You KNOW the First is trying to kill them all. OK, you drunk potentials, go walk home by yourselves in the dark while Faith and I have drama.”

    – The argument in the house should have been effective, but I thought it didn’t work because nobody identified an alternate plan. If someone had come out and said “There must be a reason the First hasn’t come HERE to kill us – we should research ABC before we attack” (or wait for Spike to report back or set a trap for Caleb or whatever), then it would look like they were arguing for something other than “We should keep sitting around the house feeling sorry for ourselves.”

    – Buffy’s plan is either poorly explained or uncharacteristically dumb. Typically, when she comes back for a second shot and an unbeatable enemy, she has a new card up her sleeve, like a rocket launcher or a joining spell or all the stuff she threw at Glory. Here, she basically tells the potentials that her plan is to do the same thing that got two of them killed and Xander maimed. If she had told them that she had a trick planned, they might have bought it.

    – Anya’s “You didn’t earn it” speech was unconvincing. We viewers know, and Xander just told us, that Buffy did earn it. She willing gave up her own life twice, plus killed Angel, plus let him go, because she wants to do the right thing. Were we supposed to think that Anya had a point or that she’s a selfish ex-demon with no emotional awareness who is saying stupid stuff that the other people apparently accept for no reason?

    – I hate Giles’ sweater. And speaking of sweaters, along with poking Buffy and Spike every time they walk into a room to make sure they aren’t the First, the Scoobies should pretty much restrain everyone wearing a turtleneck on the assumption that they are hiding bite marks.

    P.s.: I also don’t like that I’m this grumpy. I really do like this show, and I’m glad that my Walking Dead feedback is improved so that there’s some evidence this isn’t my default attitude.

    P.p.s.: IMHO, if Buffy is at an all time low, Angel at this point is at an all time high. The last several Angel episodes of Season Four are some of my favorites episodes of any TV anywhere.

    The unknown: Was the First planning to have Buffy lead the potentials into another trap, or was she planning to separate Buffy from the potentials? Maybe we’ll learn next week.

  11. P.p.p.s: One more unknown: What exactly does it take to get the residents of Sunnydale to flee? THAT’S what I would have liked to have seen.

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